EP 6 - Bridging Traditions and Innovation: Whanake Foundry, Web3, and the Future of Collective Empowerment

🌐 Welcome to a groundbreaking exploration of blockchain technology, community empowerment, and the innovative world of Decentralized Autonomous Organizations (DAOs) in Episode 6 of our series. Join hosts Rauriki and Madyx as they dive deep into how these technologies can revolutionize our approach to collective action and governance, aligning with the principles of Whanake for a sustainable and empowered future.

🔍 In "Unlocking the Future: The Power of Blockchain & Community in Shaping Tomorrow," we delve into the intricacies of blockchain's potential to transform community projects, the strategic use of DAOs for decentralized governance, and the journey of navigating legal landscapes to bring these visions to life in New Zealand. This episode is packed with insightful discussions, practical challenges, and visionary ideas that will intrigue anyone interested in the intersection of technology, sustainability, and community-driven change.

🕒 Timestamps for Key Topics:

• 00:00:00 - Introduction to Blockchain and Community Empowerment
• 00:01:00 - The Revolutionary Potential of Web3 Technologies
• 00:05:00 - Blockchain's Alignment with Community Values
• 00:10:00 - Understanding DAOs and Decentralized Governance
• 00:15:00 - Overcoming Blockchain Integration Challenges
• 00:20:00 - Navigating Legal Frameworks for DAOs in NZ
• 00:25:00 - Financial and Operational Insights for DAOs
• 00:30:00 - Visioning a Cooperative Future through DAOs
• 00:35:00 - Moving Forward: Building an Actionable, Decentralized Future

👥 Who Should Watch?

• Blockchain enthusiasts curious about its application beyond cryptocurrency.
• Community leaders seeking innovative governance models.
• Anyone interested in the role of technology in societal change.
• Legal and financial professionals exploring the framework of DAOs.
• Visionaries and changemakers looking to contribute to a sustainable future.

💡 Why Subscribe to Our Channel?

• Stay ahead of the curve with the latest discussions on technology and community empowerment.
• Join a growing community of forward-thinkers dedicated to making a difference.
• Access to practical advice, resources, and stories from the field.

🔔 Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated with our latest content and join us on this journey towards a decentralized and empowering future.

📢 We Want to Hear From You!

• Share your thoughts, questions, or experiences with blockchain, DAOs, and community projects in the comments below. Let's create a vibrant discussion and learn from each other.

#Blockchain #DAO #CommunityEmpowerment #SustainableFuture #DecentralizedGovernance #Innovation #TechnologyForGood #NewZealand

✨ Join us in reimagining what's possible and unlock the potential of collective empowerment through technology. Watch now and become part of the conversation!

‍
Transcript (Auto Generated by Descript)
EP 6 -
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[00:00:00]

Rauriki: Woo.

Madyx: Welcome to the most exciting podcast on the internet.

Rauriki: Hey, Hey,

You know, I've been, I've been talking about our, kind of our parallel. It's, it's kind of like a whanake experiment on the side. Like, I, I, like the, the, the learnings that we have come out of whanake almost immediately apply to, um, this cohort of like a hundred, no, not a hundred, sorry, like 40 or

Madyx: that's

Rauriki: because we're just keeping it, keeping it manageable.

And so like, yeah, after like setting up our potential systems for Whanake, um, that's always in the back of my mind. And so I tried to onboard some of our collective into the blockchain, and it was just incredibly difficult. Like,

Madyx: yeah,

Rauriki: even for us, it's like an abstract concept then.

Madyx: yep,

Rauriki: And, [00:01:00] um, like there's so much potential in Yeah.

This web 3 technology and decentralized technology and how it aligns with, with game B, because blockchain isn't really a part of our values and principles as whanake. But it is one of the mechanisms by which you can deliver it so well, um,

Madyx: it's a tool that can be applied towards our value set,

Rauriki: yeah, it is, and so that's why I think the two kaupapa, whanake, and this collective of rangatahi align so well because our values and principles are similar, and needless to say, we are like a localised node of animism.

So it's, it's kind of, it's kind of cool, um, but yeah, just uploading people into the, into the blockchain has been tricky. And it's even, even like, you know, when you go on the blockchain, you get a seed phrase with 12 words. And then if you forget your words, then you forget, then you have no access ever,

Madyx: yeah bro,

Rauriki: um, to [00:02:00] your wallet.

Madyx: I've got it written down like right next to my computer but. That's not foolproof, right?

Rauriki: Yeah, I know. So, um,

Madyx: up and I'm like, no, my 10 billion in Bitcoin.

Rauriki: mine's written and, oh, and like, you know, for blockchain, you could potentially hold land titles. You could hold governance positions and

Madyx: could hold billions of dollars of

Rauriki: yeah, billions of dollars. And yeah, and it's all even, you could, you could even hold. Um, if you've had a shared wallet and you need like four people to sign off and there's four of you.

Madyx: Yep,

Rauriki: Or if you need three people to sign off and one of you loses your wallet and two of them, then you never can get those things, so it's, yeah, it's um,

Madyx: my god. Well, that was that was what some of the first doubts that were set up They didn't have a mechanism to add any changes to their smart contract and stuff and they were like, all right that's a learning like Obviously, you want a level of preserving that value set, so it can't just easily be changed, but you need a mechanism.

Rauriki: yeah, and [00:03:00] I was, I've been thinking about us as a DAO and about the nature of a DAO is like a smart contract. Dependent operation, and I don't, I was thinking maybe we're not a DAO, maybe we're like a, a, a, a pseudo DAO, where we are like more of a Web3, we utilize the Web3 technologies, but not necessarily have everything governed by smart contracts because of its rigidity, and of its, um, I suppose just because it's so new, and we just maybe don't have the expertise to navigate that.

But there are tools that help us as a Web3 collective operate, as Adele does. So yeah, I was just like, there's probably a spectrum.

Madyx: Well, that's what, um, oh, man.

Rauriki: I watched that video, I watched that

Madyx: Oh, yeah. Nice. From Jeremy

Rauriki: yeah, from um, Jeremy Murren, in anticipation of our, of our hui.

Madyx: hopefully that's a good catch up. [00:04:00] Oh, wait, I was going to say something quick on, oh, quasi down. I can't remember their name, but, um, that other outfit that's doing, like, collective Decision making on funding that's

Rauriki: Oh, uh, uh, the well being protocol. That's Mark Pascal.

Madyx: exactly. Thank you. Um, that's basically what they're doing, right?

Like, they're not on the, they're not on the chain, but they're using all the principles and practices that are like web three, like, and I think that's a really good discussion to have, like,

Rauriki: Yeah, because in anticipation of our meeting, uh, we're going to have a conversation about establishing DAOs and legal frameworks within New Zealand. And And when I was watching it, DAO's are all, it's um, smart contracts based on governance tokens, and then decisions are made, um, pretty much autonomously through code, based on [00:05:00] consensus.

And um,

and yeah, even, even the, the, the tokens themselves can be like Bought, or given, or you can have multiple, yeah, so you can have Wales and heaps of people, and so they've got other, um, polynomial voting.

Madyx: yeah,

Rauriki: you weigh, weigh them. Yeah, which is what the Wellbeing Protocol does, but I, I, uh, I was reflecting on, on finding the autospace NFT, soulbound NFTs.

So that's not, that's like a governance token, but it's not one you buy. You just have like one that says, yes, I have one person, one vote type of thing. Um, yeah, so we kind of, there's like subtle differences in, in kind of the The approach. So I think we'll have a really good discussion tomorrow.

Madyx: Same bro, because a lot of DAOs are set up as investment vehicles

Rauriki: Yeah.

Madyx: and I think that's where a [00:06:00] lot of the energy is gone because they are moving like big sums of money, but they are very much set up around how much you invest in is your stake.

Rauriki: Venture Capital was like the first Dao, eh?

Madyx: yeah, it's like Web3 Venture Capital, which is a cool way, I guess, to not, to do venture capitalism or to do investing where you don't just empower BlackRock or Stage Street any further, right?

Like, that's, that's better than that, but it's still very much like playing Game A

Rauriki: Yeah, so game,

Madyx: way, right?

Rauriki: And so I think, in the list of what Daos are, they're like fundraising, um, Their governance mechanisms, um, the structures that they put forward in the video, Jeremy Murat, and we'll put the link in the description

Madyx: Yeah, yeah, good call.

Rauriki: too,

Madyx: Yeah,

Rauriki: Yeah, it was like, you can either set up an incorporated society if you're not, if you're a not for profit, or you can set up kind of a [00:07:00] layered DAO, trust, limited liability company.

And then I was wondering

Yeah, I was wondering, like, how do we, how do we capture a, a, uh, cooperative structure where you've got shareholdership and, and, um, like owner operated mechanism, because the, the incorporated society can hire contractors and employees. They can be anyone else.

Madyx: Yeah,

Rauriki: the same as, as a corporate for profit.

But then that, I don't know if that's, yeah, that's our, we are Cooper. How do we make a, how do we make a da a dao that's cooperative or the shareholders, uh, and owners are the operators.

Madyx: exactly. No, I'm really excited to talk to Jeremy and get some, and his, um, the other, the woman that's been involved in it, she said she was [00:08:00] gonna come to, that was in the YouTube video. Um, sorry, I'm forgetting her name, but we will put the video in the, the podcast description so you, so you guys, so anyone in the future that might listen that wants to go and talk to see what we're, what we're talking about.

But, um, what I was gonna say is, yeah, I'm excited to. Get their advice on it because I think we know what we want and hopefully they can articulate the best legal for that and you're totally right. I think one of the appeals to a DAO for us is we don't want separation of governance decision making and And people doing the work, which is like a worker owned cooperative type of, in that sense, um, the other appealing things about DAO's are like I think efficiency, ease of use, like non locality, um, there's a lot of cool things of being able to do it just in a distributed way, transparency, et cetera, et cetera, so that's why I'm excited for Jeremy and the team there to [00:09:00] go, we want this, we want this, like what legal structures can we make to do this, and I think Reflecting on what you said around, do we want to be a quasi DAO or a full DAO, I think what's cool about trying to do it fully, officially, like within the current structure is it adds some challenges, but one, we're not risking like vast sums of capital and wealth.

I feel like in some sense, we haven't, we have a Ability to take a risk and try it and you and I aren't going to lose the knowledge and the intellectual capital, right? If we had to like dissolve something Because we tried it and we're like we are quasi Dao or whatever I think we could can carry on but it's I don't just my first thoughts are it's worth taking a risk on trying to Do it and and establish a really clear blueprint because I think if you do it like well being protocol It is easier to get going, and they have a lot they want to do, it's not, I think [00:10:00] that's what's appropriate for them, but for us, um, I think maybe it's appropriate for us to take a risk to try and make an official blueprint, because that, I think will be more easily shareable, and that has been one of our operations and one of the reasons we've had some seed funding.

Is for us to do this to find a really, uh, to, what is it, clear a path a little bit as like

Rauriki: Yeah.

Madyx: explorer, right? And say, here, now it's a little bit easier for you guys to, to follow and this is an official legal way that you can set it up and we can share that blueprint. That's just my initial thoughts.

Rauriki: Yeah. I think what the bloop, the two kind of examples that we're given, Kind of fit out what we need, but I don't think that we're going cooperative type, that Game B type of structure. Because we're not only pushing the legal structures now, but we're trying to run an operation that reflects the Game B principles [00:11:00] of the whanake future now.

So we're pushing,

Madyx: Yeah.

Rauriki: we're pushing that. And then, um, and then there was this even off ramping from like If we, if we on ramped into the blockchain, into the DAO, people could pay us in blockchain and always taking money out of that, whether it's individually, if you're contracted by the, if you're paid by the organization, um, how are you paid?

And then if you get paid so much, how do you, like, how do you buy pens? Like, that's always my question to myself. Like, like, how do I even buy, if I was having a meeting and whatever, and I just needed something that was only 2. What would be the fee to buy something that small, and the only place that's kind of done it in a reasonable way that I've seen is rain cards.

They provide a link between a Visa debit card, a virtual debit card, and your shared wallet on the blockchain. And you don't need to have an intermediary [00:12:00] bank account.

Madyx: It'll just automatically sell a certain amount of

Rauriki: yeah, so, so it uses, it uses whatever's in your safe, um, as like collateral. And then at the end of the month, it just draws down on whatever you spent.

So you don't have to do, it's not transaction by transaction. They just say, oh. So you got 100 grand in there, so we'll give you, you know, you can spend up to 50 grand because of the variability and cost and all that, and at the end of the month you just pay us.

Madyx: that's clever. So then your gas fees are really reasonable.

Rauriki: so you just pay one interaction, whereas, whereas other cards you gotta pay every, you gotta transfer from, you know, like, whatever, all the fees along the way,

Madyx: Because it would have to go from your wallet to an exchange, sell it, get USD or NZD, then transacting that, yeah, there'd be a lot of steps. Whereas if you just do it in one go,

Rauriki: So, um, like, the only thing with that is, they're only operating for US people. US companies at the moment, and that's[00:13:00]

Madyx: that's a

Rauriki: mechanism I've seen that allows you to take money out of the blockchain without having, like, if you take it out of easy Crypto or, or, or, or like, uh, Daset, which is another New Zealand exchange, if you wanna ex and they, um, you know, they can confirm your bank account or independent reserve.

It's like $20 every time you wanna take money out. Um, yeah. And then it's,

Madyx: Yeah.

Rauriki: and you, and then like. Yeah, if you wanted to buy, if we had, if we got paid 100 grand, or whatever, to Whanake, and we wanted to buy Whanake pens, or Whanake subscription to, um, you know, Scoredcast, a virtual debit card would allow you to do that straight from, from that, but if I, otherwise, you'd have to take it from the Whanake wallet, in the blockchain, pass it to the Whanake, um, like, third party, and then extract that third party, [00:14:00] which was like, ezcrypto or something, into, um, Your bank account, and then, and then if you have it in your bank account, and it's more than two to sign, which is like, you want to try and have some decentralized operation, then you can't have a debit card, so it's like, if you're, if you're an incorporated society, you can't have a debit card, so,

Madyx: Yeah, a lot of, I don't think it might have been an article Jeremy wrote was saying like one of the biggest challenges that people encounter is how to do banking and financial

Rauriki: yeah,

Madyx: But I'm wondering, and this is obviously a piece I look forward to putting to them, but wonder, If Whanake doesn't need to transact on chain financially yet, but can do all the decision making and governance, and then can approve a payment, and that even if that approval of a payment by blockchain vote, all the governance will be recorded and verified on the chain and [00:15:00] recognized.

And that will give, instead of getting sign off from a board or some other entity, yes, we can do this contract, that might be a much, that might be a way to start. And then when the facilities come online here, because that would still provide transparency and a record, and then maybe we would have to daylight a financial account so that people could confirm that side.

But at least the decision making would be on the, on the chain,

Rauriki: yeah, I think, and that's the, the decision making's on chain and I think that's what the wellbeing protocol has opted for. On chain decision making governance, governance, and then off chain fiscal activities,

Madyx: I don't think anything's on the chain. I think they just use chain like Right, we should check but I don't think they're actually using like the chain or paying gas fees I think, I don't think it's verifiable in that sense, you

Rauriki: yeah, yeah, true.

Madyx: but we would all be on chain. Well, We could make the decision making in governance.

Yeah

Rauriki: it's so like, I [00:16:00] feel like it could be so This is showing my lack of understanding of US tax law, because, um, the other question I do want to ask tomorrow is if we did it that way, um, and I looked up, you can have a look through company over, over, um, in the states, in a favourable state, like Delaware or something, and then that doesn't provide any It's not a legal entity?

Madyx: Oh

Rauriki: So it's not an entity itself, it's just, um, you still are taxed as an individual of whoever owns the company. So I was thinking, what if our, our incorporated society owned that company? Then we would be taxed, then the entity would be taxed, not, we'd still have a legal, like, um Limited liability around us as operators in the Tau.

Yeah, but I'm like, oh, and that's just so we can get a US like, can we have a third party that's delivering [00:17:00] our day to day procurement of pens of, you know, just like a third party spending. Um, and I think, cause that's the only other ingredient we need to then pretty have quite a smooth. On boarding and off boarding, on ramping and off ramping,

Madyx: right.

Rauriki: So yeah, I reckon, that's one of the questions I want to ask. Are we going to look like money, money laundering, um, are we going to look like sanitarium? I think they've lost their, their charity status, hey, for the, uh Yeah, I think so, because, um, I saw it in the news, someone was like, yeah, we know, you know, they have a seven figure, eight figure, um, whatever. Sound like weak books.

Madyx: yeah, that's definitely a loophole they exploited for a long time. But I mean, like, that's why it's awesome to catch up with the crew, Jeremy and the crew over there, and just put all these sort of legal structural questions to them, and hopefully be able to articulate to them, [00:18:00] like, what we need on our end from operations and value, and they can go, this is the best match on a legal framework, and hopefully They were aware about the US and some other options and it seemed to be that their Take was if you can do it in New Zealand, that seemed to be what they recommended, but we'll see when we have a

Rauriki: yeah, I think the,

Madyx: I'm interested

Rauriki: think they'll Yeah, I think I've read, you know, they've got the Wyoming, they've got the Delaware, they've got Vermont, and a lot of those structures still don't really provide a full envelope for, you know, and you also have to disclose a lot of detail about every, every bugger, um, oh yeah, it's

Madyx: there's a lot of extra complexity like adding in another another State foreign state to where you're operating. So if we could It was really interesting how they did it where they had this structure of legal relationships where there's a doubt and then there's [00:19:00] Existing legal structures in New Zealand and they, at least what Jeremy says, he believes he can set it up in a way where it's truly running by the DAO and those legal structures just allow it.

So, it'll be interesting.

Rauriki: yeah, it was cool, like they've got Um, you know the DAO makes decisions and then the trust, there's a, the, there's a trust that has trustees selected by the DAO and they're Entrusted with the activities, um, set out by the DAO and they've got to, they've got to action them. And then the trust is a full shareholder of a company, and so that company's profits can go to the trust.

And then the trust can divvy it out to the beneficiaries,

Madyx: Which is the DAO right? Yeah.

Rauriki: the DAO. So I, I like, I feel like there's like, there's a part like that. My other thing is, if we had a governance token. And so the same token said, I'm a [00:20:00] member on this incorporated society, which is the charitable operation, and I'm also a member on this collective, like, a for profit collective.

Is that a bad thing? Like, I

Madyx: that's what we would like but that might be like illegal on every governance rule

Rauriki: I don't know, I don't want to be like,

Madyx: But that's what we'll ask him.

Rauriki: Yeah, we'll do some charity work here. And, um, if we make profit in the non profit side, that can go towards the non profit activity within scope. But then if we want to do outside of the scope of our non profit, um, type of activities, we might do, I don't know, whatever, whatever random activity we see as an opportunity.

Then we can do that and then those benefits can be passed on to the beneficiaries. Um,

Madyx: I think the thing about a a Charity or not for profit or society is that it can earn money to further Its mission. There's nothing against that. It just can't pay out[00:21:00]

Rauriki: To its beneficiaries. Yeah. One

Madyx: and it can pay people for Services to further their mission, right? So it's like in theory, but yeah, you're right These are all great questions for a lawyer because what you said about well can we just can the trustees the corporation people and the DAO people all have a Token on the blockchain that's all that it has authority across all three or is that one of the worst money laundry?

Yeah, like tax it

Rauriki: have we just articulated tax evasion and money laundering and international crime?

Madyx: We don't want separation of those three layers.

Rauriki: we want, we want that to be. Like, we want to be able to do work that's meaningful, that can create income and can create well being and prosperity, but, um, you know, appropriately, if it's for, if it's for profit or non profit cause stuff, that's all umbrella, we want to keep that [00:22:00] tight, but we also don't want to stay limited to, to that, because we do want to expand flexibility into, um, exploring whatever other avenues, and then the, the for profit entity could probably, the trust The incorporated society part of the DAO could be a, um, beneficiary of, of that, so like, that could potentially be, like, but, but hey, I don't know, are we breaking all the rules?

And then, um, oh, like one other question I had was, I saw this cool way about compensating people's time within DAOs and collectives and, uh, koordinape. I don't know if I shared with you koordinape. It is a Web3, uh, like, payments, but also way where collectives of people can. So, um, it's a way for people to value each other's time, and it works like, um, everyone in the DAO, everyone in the collective has a hundred points, and then you allocate Your points to who you think has done a lot of work [00:23:00] in your collective and if you've done a lot of work with someone you can give them a lot of your points, but everyone has a hundred points to distribute equally.

And then based on how those hundred points land across everything, people might see someone's done a lot and they might get like 600 points. Um, there's a budget associated with it and that might be a bonus budget or that might be the operational budget. And so people get compensated. Uh, through a smart contract, straight to their wallets, uh, based on, you know, there might be, uh, 20 grand to give to everyone.

And then, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's divvied up. The, the example was mainly used for bonuses 'cause everyone would be on a fixed, fixed salary, like a fixed rate, but depending on the highs and low. Um, and have everyone, whoever I've worked with then, um, yeah, the things will get developed. But yeah, I wonder, I was thinking, yeah, is that legal?

Can we do that? Sounds cool. I don't want to be like, [00:24:00] back

Madyx: that's what the lawyers, that's what the lawyers can provide to the mission, right? They can tell us all these, is this legal question, which is, that's perfect. That's what we need, right? Cause we have a bunch of scenarios. Is this legal? Is this tax evasion? Is this money laundering? Or is this a great,

Rauriki: Cause, cause when we've, we, we attempted to establish a society based charitable trust for whanake. Uh, and actually we have set up a society based charitable trust, but some of the activities articulated in our trust deed were deemed either too unclear or maybe charitable purposes. For example, we wanted to provide game bee perspectives or system change to inform policy, and system change in policy, in form of policy making is not.

A charitable

Madyx: Yeah, purpose.

Rauriki: would have to sit in the commercial for profit side. Even though it contributes to the same overall [00:25:00] vision, some stuff are within New Zealand deemed charitable and some aren't. And so how do we still do the non, the for profit activities that are purpose driven,

Madyx: Yep.

Rauriki: um, so that we can keep a, uh, charitable Status, and then access funding, philanthropic funding, that aligns with it.

Yeah, that's a, that's I think the benefit of having a dual structure.

Madyx: Yes. Which is like, uh, open AI. I mean, like, they abuse, they abuse that structure. But that is at least what it they claim that's what their structure enables, right?

Rauriki: yeah. Um,

Madyx: And we're pretty much like open AI for New Zealand.

Rauriki: yeah, haha,

Madyx: uh, Sorry, were you going to say something?

Rauriki: No, no, I'm just, that was a, that was a, that was a good [00:26:00] analogy, because Open AI, uh. The open AI itself is a charitable thing, startup

Madyx: original, yeah, entity was,

Rauriki: Microsoft is the commercial arm

Madyx: yeah,

Rauriki: is now a significant investor,

Madyx: or something. Yeah.

Rauriki: they're not a decision maker because it's a business. Now, they're not shareholders, they're just major investors.

Madyx: Yeah. Well, that's why I'm wondering, there'll be, again, we can maybe do a follow up podcast on how it went and how all these questions were answered, but, um, And it would be cool to have, yeah, have Jeremy as a guest on the podcast possibly at some stage.

Rauriki: Yeah,

Madyx: further things to talk about, and there's people actually listening, it's worth his time, but I was gonna say, um, it was interesting hearing you lay out these different scenarios, and I'm wondering if, so the charity legal designation is really restrictive, [00:27:00] um, especially around these new emerging

Rauriki: Mmm.

Madyx: hard for it to classify as either charitable or profitable, and it can be very restrictive, and I wonder if there's a way that you don't even need the, the, um, what is it, incorporated society, that, I wonder if there's a way that the DAO as the governance decision maker in some way can provide that assurance and safety feature that this corporation that it governs, Is acting.

In a,

Rauriki: Chowder ball. Mmm.

Madyx: rather than the charitable status being the binding to get a tax benefit that the that the DAO smart contracting governance, which is all Verifiable by anyone, right? So that's the thing. They don't have to take our words. Anyone can see the smart contracts and the DAO's operations.

That might be a [00:28:00] different way to look at The assurance that this thing is operating in a, in a benefit way, you know, in a social enterprise way. Right. I don't know. That's right. That I wonder if that's another way to explore it because then you have the freedom to do whatever commercial activities lead.

or support the mission that's established by the DAO smart contract and its rule set, you know what I mean? Like, I'm wondering if that gives you more flexibility and still assurance, but

Rauriki: I think if, if you had a, if you did have a DAO and a means to audit, cause, cause everything's transparent on chain, so you could readily audit all the activities that they do, and it'd just be a, an exercise in decoding transactions and their Determining whether they are for charitable purpose or not, which may be, which may be tricky to do, [00:29:00] um, and

Madyx: But what if you're not

Rauriki: with

Madyx: about Yeah, go

Rauriki: Yeah, and I think with the charitable status comes the, the charitable kind of reporting and, and all of those kind of things.

Um, but eventually I think it will grow to a point where that can be an automated task that sits within the blockchain and, and you know, AI is doing that and it determines it. Um, that wouldn't that suck if you got your charitable status

Madyx: Buy an AI.

Rauriki: that was like, Oh, you know, you've got too many pens.

And, um, that's. That's, that's, that's too far.

Madyx: that's true. I mean a lot of the people stuck within these bureaucracies and these institutions are essentially operating like low level AIs already. So I don't know how different it would be

Rauriki: Yeah, I

Madyx: a human.

Rauriki: we had a kōrero about um, we had a kōrero about low level AI and like mission, the potential for AI to just replace all those kind of jobs,

Madyx: Yeah, what was that?

Rauriki: jobs that I've have [00:30:00] been in, like,

Madyx: bro.

Rauriki: um. I think those are some key questions for our discussion tomorrow, which, but like this has been a long time coming.

And I remember seeing Jeremy Muir's name in our early kind of, um, research and discovery, uh, phase. Just never thought, oh, they wouldn't knock on our door and be like, oh, yeah, we'd be keen to have a, have a talk. And we reached out to them and they said, um, they said they were interested.

Madyx: Yeah, yeah, now this is, uh, there's a few people like emerging in the scene and there'll be a whole ton of people in the informal space that we're probably much less aware of, but some of the people that I like. In a higher profile sense, um, like it was Alex Sims at the Auckland University and Jeremy Murin.

Um, yeah, and obviously the crew, crew at Wellbeing Protocol, you know, there's a few, few, and, uh, I signed us up, I think, but I didn't see anything from

Rauriki: [00:31:00] The Web3 NZ,

Madyx: Yeah, did that come through?

Rauriki: yeah, yeah, that's, uh, I think Callaghan's been doing some mahi there and I know there's some, they're doing some, they did a feature of money or feature of work, maybe it was money and, and, uh, either the treasury was doing some, um, some stuff there and I think maybe they've partnered with, um, with, I, I don't know.

I saw that EZcrypto partnered with Callaghan as well to set out a New Zealand Stablecoin. They released, I think, in November last year.

Madyx: really?

Rauriki: Uh, yeah, so, there was a Yeah, there was one before and now I think it got hacked or something, something they were like, don't, if you see any of this on PolygonChain, don't, don't get it, it's uh, something happened like, you can have, um, anyways, it was a big red banner and I, I didn't want to go there, but um, so yeah, like,

Madyx: Yep.

Rauriki: stable coins and, and there's, there's a few things [00:32:00] happening, I think, I think the infrastructure is probably moving towards making it more easier and possible to set up a web 3 company.

A web3 organisation, a quasi DAO or a full on DAO. Um, but yeah,

Madyx: It's cool to

Rauriki: yeah, it

Madyx: Sorry bro, finish your thought.

Rauriki: I think given our legal structures here, what I got from Jeremy Muir and his team were it's pretty easy to set up something here. It'll just take a few tweaks. And the majority of the DAO's activities are only reflected in The rules of your trust.

Madyx: Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it. He seemed pretty, like, optimistic about it and that you didn't need to do any of these foreign country maneuvers. But, yeah, it'll be really enlightening to see what he says. And I guess the other thing is like, I [00:33:00] don't know, um, it's not that we're trying to get involved in policy, but obviously If we can demonstrate, I don't know, the viability of the DAO in general, and then advocate for a legal pathway that's a little bit more straightforward rather than a Because in principle what New Zealand's tax law and legal system wants is like they don't want different rule sets for different things I know they had a big reform on tax laws where Corporate trust personal income like everything should be the same because then it disincentivizes you shifting around money and I feel like By that principle, what would they rather have?

That you can, that you can just have a DAO that operates as a legal entity that can do business and own assets, or that we have like three to seven different legal entities with legal relationships, you know, and a DAO governing it, but this complicated web. Surely the, the, the tax agency, the IRD here and all the, surely they would prefer just a simplistic, this is a DAO, and it does things like a company, but it operates [00:34:00] differently.

So, anyways, it's a long way of saying, um, I think if we find a way to do it legally, even if it's not perfect, then maybe we can be, we can contribute towards speeding up the process of legitimizing it here,

Rauriki: Yeah, definitely. If we can, we may, our way we do it now may be a convoluted, um, you know, whole mishmash of things, but at least we can then be a part of the discussion to make it easier for others.

Madyx: . So yeah, I'm excited too. We'll hopefully be able to progress to the legal back end of it, which is, yeah, one of the legal and financial,

Rauriki: yeah, cause the legal, so the legal. The financial is so connected to the legal and, um, once we've got the legal, I think it's just going to be straight through financial and then we're going to be pretty well set up. We'll have an entity and then we can just do work, get money, spend money, um, save [00:35:00] money, buy assets,

Madyx: yeah. That's the, that's the next phase around like, network state y type phase of like, you know, one angle is just like there's a mission that we have that we agreed on and we get money to do that work and that work just furthers it by the fact of propagating that thinking out there, right? We pay to be To provide white papers or thought leaderships or workshop or whatever and that's spreading this type of thinking and people that are interested pay us for that.

But then there's the like, and you just pay people, right? A fair, a living retainer to provide that service. And then there's the like, but do you also try and acquire assets for Whanake Foundry that, you know, um, as another way to grow the wealth in the Game B space or A B, you know?

Rauriki: Yeah, and then you get into, you know, we could be products in terms of, you know, could we [00:36:00] create vision cubes, like tangible vision cubes, or, um, assets in terms of land and creating the eko pā, like type, type of whanake based, um, local nodes that are tangible places, physical places people can go and, and, um, work and connect and realize these futures and have all these different type of structures set out and, yeah,

Madyx: is, which is like the network conference showed a bunch of examples, right? Sort of. Is that what you're thinking? I mean, in a sense, they have their own mission, but that's what they're doing, right? Like cabin and cul de sac and these other endeavors are

Rauriki: or would we be just a part of the thinking that helps to seed something like that, because

Madyx: part of cabin or cul de sac, a node. Yeah, that's the thing. We could be a node in their network, or we could create a complementary network. All of these are yeah. Options, right? As long as it furthered the mission of Whanake Foundry, we're not like, we have to be the [00:37:00] network. We could be a node in someone else's network if it, if everything aligned, right? That's cool. Well sweet bro,

, we'll share everything, and then whatever's useful is useful. Like we'll share, look, we used a script to do this, and we used Squadcast to do this, and we're using Discord or whatever. Like we'll try and put together The actual blueprint of everything that all the tools that we're using to do our thing so that you can take your thing And nest it inside of a similar structure if it's useful, right and you don't have to What's better is it?

You know, what do I do for recording or what do I do for video conferencing? What do I do for you know,

Rauriki: And we, and we're really targeting like it's only, there's only me and you at the moment. And so everything that we're trying to do is, uh, we don't want premium memberships of things or paying, paying for every team member. We're trying to figure out how can we do this with the smallest capital.

Operational

Madyx: Yeah

Rauriki: to allow all these blockchain AI efficiencies to [00:38:00] support our vision and how could that be applied to anyone else who has a vision starting small and just creating heaps of nodes.

Madyx: My final thought takeaway for tomorrow is that We just need a minimum lovable product, right? It doesn't have to be the end point. , that's a good starting point.

You know what I mean? As long as we're mindful of how it can grow.

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